Dear Readers,
Due to technical (mainly temporal) constraints, I have been unable to dedicate any significant time to this venue. On the other hand, I feel that its ongoing existence is of value. I have chosen a random post by Rabbi Slifkin to comment on. If any readers would like me to post on a particular topic, please contact me at rivkyc@sympatico.ca
About two weeks ago, Rabbi Slifkin chose to broach the topic of "mushulachim". He writes as follows:
Hmm… I wonder how much research Rabbi Slifkin actually did regarding the prospective groom. Not much, it seems. The meshulach informed him that the chasan was a Yeshiva man and immediately Rabbi Slifkin responded with unsupported criticism."Recently, a chassidishe tzedakah-collector came to my door, collecting for a young man getting married. I asked him what the young man does, and the meshulach looked a little surprised at my question; the young man is in yeshivah, of course, a fine ben Torah. So I asked how he can possibly spend all his time in yeshivah, when he cannot afford to get married and has to send people to collect money for him? Does it not say in the kesubah that the husband has an obligation to support his wife? Is it not his duty to at least attempt to earn some money himself?"
Who says he spends all his time in Yeshiva? Maybe he works part-time and can’t make ends meet?"how he can possibly spend all his time in yeshivah?"
Who says he sent anyone to collect money for him? Maybe his friend sympathized with his situation and decided to collect funds for his wedding?"and has to send people to collect money for him"
So, is that it? Is hachnasos kallah (openly mandated in Maseches Peah) now taboo because some 20 year old doesn’t have a job? Sure the kesuba mandates an obligation but the boy is not married yet. Perhaps he intends on finding gainful employment after marriage? What is Rabbi Slifkin saying? Is he advocating trade school, or university, for all post-high school graduates? Is he suggesting that the Yeshiva system be abrogated? If not, what IS he suggesting? Why did he give the meshulach such a hard time?"Does it not say in the kesubah that the husband has an obligation to support his wife?"
Look, I know many readers are probably thinking "this Coffer fellow is naïve", at best. But this issue has been a sore point in the Chareidi world for quite some time now. And although I could understand Rabbi Slifkin’s attitude if it pertained to a 45 year old kollel fellow with 10 kids, I can’t understand it regarding a young unmarried yeshiva boy who happens to be monetarily disadvantaged. Anything between these two extremes is a grey area and needs to be dealt with on a national level by competent gedolei torah, and on an individual level, by competent rabbonim.
If Rabbi Slifkin would like to reform "the system", let him say so. And while doing that, let him offer positive and constructive suggestions to promote same.
To quote the good Rabbi: "it is always easier to obfuscate and distort than to untangle and clarify"
SC
" Now, I can appreciate that certain topics, such as the Deluge, bother relatively few people, and the answers require pushing the boundaries of faith to their very limits, and it is therefore not worth opening that can of worms in public."
ReplyDeleteCan you tell us your view on the Flood
Hello Dynamic,
ReplyDeleteWelcome to our blog.
My “view” of the flood is precisely what the Torah says. Notwithstanding Rabbi Slifkin’s condescending remarks, there is indeed plenty of physical evidence for a global deluge. Immanuel Velikovsky (Earth and Upheaval) makes several convincing arguments for the occurrence of a global aquatic catastrophe such as the presence of whale fossils on the tops of mountains (pages 46-49). Velikovsky obviously had an ax to grind but his data happens to be useful. I do however agree with Rabbi Slifkin that the topic is best left alone, but not for his reasons.
Was Rabbi Slikin gainfully employed when he married?
ReplyDeleteWhat about the fact the Chinese and the Egyptians
ReplyDeletehave an uninterrupted history for 5000 years
BY THE WAY I WAS BT WHO LOST IT ( WENT TO OHR SAMACH IN 1976 AND STAYED IN KOLLEL 15 YEARS WAS FRUM FOR 30 YEARS .. STILL HAVE BIG FAMILY ...)BUT AM STILL OPEN MINDED I MAINLY LOST IT BECAUSE OF LIFE PROBLEMS BUT R SLIFKIN WAS THE STRAW THAT BROKE ...
ReplyDeleteSTAYING IN KOLLEL AND TOTAL LACK OF PARNASSER WAS HORRIFIC FOR ME
ReplyDeleteDynamic Weight Loss. I am sorry that your experience was so difficult. Could you expand on "R Slifkin was the straw..."? Was it R' Slifkins books, or the banning of the books that caused you anguish?
ReplyDeleteIn regard to the larger issue of the yeshivah world and parnassah, I always think back to an editorial piece from the English Yated Ne'eman (of not so blessed memory) from years ago on the "shidduch crisis", or more specifically the plight of young women that are not able to get married. The article listed a number of suggestions where young ladies should consider alternatives such as chassidic, sepharidi, English speakers, Hebrew speakers, converts, and what not. At the bottom of the list was the most radical consideration only to be acted upon after consultation with a great Rabbi. That is, a young man that (gasp) works half the day and learns only half the day. The clear implication is that a young man that works a full day is beyond the pale.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, there is indeed an attitude of animosity to fellows that do not learn full time. Personally, I find this disappointing.
In cases like we see here, it can be genuinely damaging.
Yitz I will answer your question buy will take some time to type it up
ReplyDeleteWhen I became frum I was told that chazel were almost superhuman and super smart as the gemorah say about the yungest smallest talmud of Hillel
ReplyDeleteeven their animal were watch from above not to sin
Whenever I came across a Gemorah about natural science or anything else that doesn't fit in to todays scientific facts I would assume that the Gemorah was focusing on some mystical aspect ot the subject or i didn't know about the subject at all to see any problems
I lernt the gemorah in chullen about the four animals that had half simon and said wow
Now R Slifkin come and teaches us the correct pshat based on many early commentaries and
every answer to his objection are very dochak
If I was happy and successfulness I would take the dochak answers
There is much more but I don't like to type
Immanuel Velikovsky is a very dochak source look him up in wikipedia his science is over 50 years old and even his followers did't agree with him almost nobody took him seriously
ReplyDeleteLook at R Slifkin now How they argue about how the sun travels around the Earth When its the Earth that goes....... If the truth was really known some early Rishon should have a least hinted to it Of course there is an answer but you must weigh it with he whole picture
ReplyDelete"No. I think that it is outright laughable to think that in a conversation that begun with Chazal speaking about physical astronomy, and continued throughout the centuries, that people suddenly started using the very same words to be discussing spiritual phenomena instead, without giving any hint that they were entirely changing the framework of the discussion."
ReplyDeletesee how people try to understand the Gemorah in a spiritual phenomena when the plain pshut is not thatway
Dynamic,
ReplyDeleteWhat about the fact the Chinese and the Egyptians have an uninterrupted history for 5000 years
Not 5000. The earliest recorded (written) history of Chinese civilization dates to approximately 1700 BC, around Avraham Avinu’s time. As far as Egypt is concerned, your claim is obviously false. The original Egyptians were a Hamitic peoples. Today, the population of Egypt is primarily Semitic.
Dynamic,
ReplyDeleteImmanuel Velikovsky is a very dochak source look him up in wikipedia
I don’t think so. I think he makes powerful points in his book, points which have never really been addressed by mainstream science. Forget Wikipedia. Answer the arguments! Focus on the substantial material. If you do this, you might begin to realize that the physical evidence does indeed point to a global deluge, notwithstanding Velikovsky’s infamy. Let’s start with whale fossils on the tops of peaks. Doesn’t this suggest a mabul? If not, why not?
Dynamic,
ReplyDelete"No. I think that it is outright laughable to think that in a conversation that begun with Chazal speaking about physical astronomy, and continued throughout the centuries, that people suddenly started using the very same words to be discussing spiritual phenomena instead, without giving any hint that they were entirely changing the framework of the discussion."
With all due respect Dynamic, it is clear that you haven’t been following the interchange closely. Both sides (on this venue) struggle to understand the Gemara in Pesachim literally. In my opinion, Rabbi Slifkin’s description simply doesn’t fit with the words of the gemara. I began writing on this topic here and as you can see I challenged Rabbi Slifkin’s description on its face.
Thanks R. SC .
ReplyDeleteI will look into your replies